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Monday, August 18th, 2014

Subject:"Don't go Outside so Early!!: Rape Culture at Home
Posted by:mel_pa.
Time:11:17 am.
This weekend I tried to leave for my recycling route at 5: 45 am when my mom ordered me from behind, "Get back into this house! Don't leave so early!". I just ignored my mom and left. I've had this battle with my mom for many years over being outdoors after dark but I wasn't even outside after dark it was getting light. Mom always said that if I go outside after dark I could get raped, the thing that kills me is now I know that is a very common myth unforturnately perpetuated by police as well as society at large. Only %9 of rapes happen outside after dark; the major of rapes occur in the victims home, the perpetrator is usually someone the victim knows, in the daytime. That's what happened to my older sister, she was raped in her own home by her husband's friend (I don't know what time). Do you see the irony of my mom's behavior there?

Whenever I try to talk to someone about it most react with hostility towards me because they believe the myth too and/or my mom is just trying to protect me and perceive me as an "ungrateful b---".

Mom says don't blame the victims of rape--unless the victim was outside after dark, hitchhiked, let the perpetrator into their home etc. "The victims were 'stupid' for doing those things. I say it is NEVER the victim's fault--period!

My mom's behavior is rape culture in the home, I was born female but I have the Goddess given right to come and go as I please, not because I don't identify as female (men are allowed to go out whenever they please, this is wrong!) but because I am an adult!

What can I say or do? I need to left early for my recycling route to make enough money!
Comments: Read 2 orAdd Your Own.

Tuesday, July 16th, 2013

Subject:Moving Out Double Standard?
Posted by:mel_pa.
Time:11:14 am.
Mood: frustrated.
I a female birth assigned genderqueer but I find myself having to justify wanting to move out of my mom and step-dad home! "Why?" people wonder. "Because I'm over 18" I reply! Do women (I'm still treated as female) have to justify wanting to move out of their parents' home and men don't, men can leave without question?
Comments: Read 1 orAdd Your Own.

Sunday, July 22nd, 2012

Subject:target has bra alternatives!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by:goth_kittykat.
Time:5:39 pm.
fyi target has a lot of stuff for bra free ladies. :)

they have the little molds that you put on your breasts, as well as the one that is like a tube top bra..and they have some active wear bras that are seamless and have no wire in them..so really they are like the top of a shapewear tank...just to keep your breasts together and not really to push them up which is great if you have to wear a bra for work purposes. just thought i'd share as i bought an activewear bra for each day of the workweek.
Comments: Read 2 orAdd Your Own.

Friday, July 20th, 2012

Subject:article from The Guardian about bra history
Posted by:real_live_troll.
Time:9:35 am.
Medieval bras uncover the fascinating history of women's daily support needs


'The Lengberg bras come to us like a secret whispered directly from the past.' Photograph: AP

This morning, millions of women have got up and put on a bra – push-up, plunge, balconette, in myriad colours and shapes (the number of sports bras in London is increasing daily). What you do with your breasts when dressing is a question women have dealt with for a good 100,000 years, as long as we've worn clothes. Do you show them, hide them, lift them up, squeeze them together, go au naturel, or turn them into a different shape? They're flexible, functional, and desirable: a prominent feature of femaleness.

The way people dress tells you about their relationship with themselves and their world. It's the reason I'm a clothing historian. How women wrangle their breasts is one of the most intimate and fascinating ways to understand the social concerns of an age. So the discovery of early 15th-century linen bras in Lengberg Castle, Austria, is a five-line jackpot for dress historians. In her article on the finds in BBC History Magazine, researcher Beatrix Nutz from the University of Innsbruck elaborates on medieval documentary evidence for "breastbags". She brings to life that people had similar daily concerns to now: enhancing or reducing the bust "so there is no gossip in the city".

Why are these bras amazing? Let me count the ways. First, there is nothing known like them from the Middle Ages. We didn't know they existed, and look how shockingly modern they are. We know medieval women wore linen tunics under their clothing, washable chemises, smocks and shifts that protected outer garments. We didn't know their approach to breast-wrangling except that tight gowns, if cut well, support the bust. Shockwaves are rippling across forums and lists as word spreads of this clothing missing link.

Women stiffened bodices from the late 15th century, which evolved into boned stays creating torsos of smooth, unnatural geometry. There breasts remained for two centuries in sculpted round monobusts. Only with "natural" body fashions around 1800 did lift-and-separate become the mode du jour, using gussets for each breast. Lift indeed: in 1813 Jane Austen was amused to learn "stays now are not made to force the bosom up at all; that was a very unbecoming, unnatural fashion".

Through the 19th century stays, or corsets as they became known, covered women from bust to hip. When corsets dropped below the bust in the 1900s women wore "brassieres" — short sleeveless camisoles — over corsets to hold everything together and avoid busty muffin-tops. A brassiere may have been patented in 1914 but the word was used from at least 1904. Bandeau brassieres made of narrow straps appeared in the 1910s; the corset disappeared through the 1920s. With the 1930s' slinky bias-cut gowns, the soft, natural brassiered bust made its first appearance since, well, probably since about the time of the Austrian pieces. Similar fit, similar approach to engineering a fashionable bustline.

The very word lingerie is French for "things made from linen". The fibre usually doesn't survive history's long journey. It decays in damp ground, if buried, and above ground suffers meticulous reuse until the last threads became paper. Most surviving medieval linen is royal or a saintly relic. The marvellous collection of everyday medieval textile and clothing pieces excavated from the Thames foreshore and now in the London Archaeological Archive and Research Centre yielded just a few scraps of linen amongst piles of wool and silk outer garments. Any intact medieval linen find is pretty thrilling in itself, and a quotidian one doubly so.

The Lengberg bras, then, come to us like a secret whispered directly from the past. This underwear is the intimacy between inner flesh and clothed outer self, the private pleasures and daily vanities of individual women who were once as real as you and I. They open up doors in the house of the past leading to new and hidden chambers and I, for one, feel an explorers' joy.





I found this quote especially relevant to our ongoing discussion here: "The way people dress tells you about their relationship with themselves and their world...How women wrangle their breasts is one of the most intimate and fascinating ways to understand the social concerns of an age."
Comments: Read 1 orAdd Your Own.

Saturday, June 23rd, 2012

Subject:OT, other sources?
Posted by:goth_kittykat.
Time:7:11 pm.
hello all, if this is not appropriate for the group please let me know.

i personally have grown as much as i can with livejournal and am currently in the process of finding another platform to journal in. one of the things i will miss the most is the groups that i have been participating in. i am wondering has this group been recreated on a different site like dreamwidth or deadjournal or another one i haven't heard of? 

thanks for your time.
Comments: Read 1 orAdd Your Own.

Monday, November 21st, 2011

Posted by:melmaclorelai.
Time:12:39 am.

I stumbled across this community when Googling "don't want to wear a bra" and I've enjoyed reading the things posted on here, so I hope it's okay I make a post myself.

I myself, would very much like to go brafree for a myriad of reasons. I never, ever wanted to wear one in the first place and some traumatic events transpired when people thought "it was time" for me to have one. My biological mother never explained anything to me about bras and just took me to the shops, saying "I want you to have a bra". I said no and she physically dragged me into a bra shop.  I ran away when she let go and I didn't end up getting one that day. About a year later, my biological father promised that he would give up smoking if I agreed to get fitted for and purchase a bra. Which he followed through with - about four or five years later. He denies he ever made this promise.

I absolutely hate wearing them and I feel much more self conscious when I do, rather than feeling self conscious when I'm not. I don't feel like it's necessary to wear them. The only times I have ever experienced chest or breast pain is when I have been wearing a bra. The local bra shops don't stock my size, so I have to go out of my way to get them. I have found many of the people working in bra shops to be uncooperative, uninterested in my wants and needs and somewhat condescending. I feel comfortable not wearing one. I am not overly large, by any means, so that eliminates any need I might have for them.

I don't like what the bra symbolises - to me, the symbolism is mainly a "Oh no! Female sexuality! Violation of modesty! Must eradicate! NOW!!!!" sort of thing. So, in short, I basically think the bra was designed by men, without the wants or needs of women in mind. To me, the bra embodies control. I'm not saying I want women to start walking around topless in public, but I simply don't see what is remotely offensive about breasts, especially if they are covered by clothing (not including bras). If bra's are necessary to "prevent sagging" or "cover up", then by all rights, shouldn't men with "man boobs" be expected to wear bras as well?

I also find it rather hypocritical that society sexualises female breasts so much but expects women to cover them up with bras.

I already defy a lot of preconceived gender stereotypes - I am not constantly dieting, I do not wear make-up, I do not wear dresses or skirts, I do not wear high heels, I don't particularly enjoy shopping, I do not shave (anything), I do not believe in marriage and I will most certainly, never be having children. However, I do like to wear jewellery and I do own some clothes which have splashes of pink on them. I like to cook and I have been known to be moved to tears quite easily, although I never cry for very long. I'm not saying that being female as a whole is made up of the things included in a gender stereotype, but I fail to see how I am letting down the female population, if I go brafree (somebody has said this to me). Being female means whatever you want it to mean. I don't identify fully as female - I prefer to think of myself as just a person, rather than a specific gender. I incorporate female and male influences in my life. For instance, I also enjoy motorcycle racing, fishing and woodwork. So, this means that really...gender constraints shouldn't apply to me.

I think I have good reasons for going brafree. But anyone I mention it to, looks at me in disgust and cries something like "But it's so unfeminine!", "But you have to wear a bra! Only hippies go without!", "That's nasty!" "Nobody wants to see that! It's disgusting!". The biggest opposition is my bio father. He's a very old fashioned person and believes in gender roles. Anything I do or say that he doesn't like, his reaction is always to try and shame me into doing what he wants. He says that I'm a stupid idiot for even thinking about going bra free. He says I will be ridiculed beyond belief over it and people will view me as though I have a contagious disease. While some people may do that - that's not a good enough reason to dismiss the idea completley. People who would say something insulting about it are much more obscene and rude about it than I ever could be just by going brafree.

I"m slowly working up the courage to go brafree, despite what my bio father says (I live with him). If I can survive his verbal assault against me not shaving, I can surely survive the one against going brafree.What opposition have the people in this group experienced? Do you have any anecdotes to share?

In any case, I'm pleased to be amongst like minded folk. X]

UPDATE: I went brafree for the first time in public a couple of days ago. I wore a singlet underneath and I don't think anybody noticed, because I didn't get any comments or unusual looks. Not even from my dear old dad who believes women should be made up properly whenever they leave the house. =D

Comments: Read 17 orAdd Your Own.

Tuesday, March 8th, 2011

Subject:Walking While Female
Posted by:mel_pa.
Time:10:46 am.
Mood: pissed off.
I don't know if this post is appropriate for this list but I feel the issue reinforces gender stereotypes and the oppression of women:

Last week I was walking to a library in another city because the local one I go to now charges for the printouts and the one I was heading to doesn't. I was stopped by a cop in his cruiser who asked me where I was going asked me for ID, if I was homeless, if I was ever arrested, and if I knew that there is a library closer to where I lived. I remained polite throughout and to my relief he let me go.


I don't want to do the equivalent of "Is it because I'm black" but I wonder if this cop believes the following myth:


Myth: Rape only occurs outside and at night.
Fact: Rape can and does occur anytime and anyplace. Many rapes occur during the day and in the victims’ homes.

My older sister was raped in her own home by someone she knew--the majority of rapes!

People think I'm "stupid" for going outside early (Even 10 am is STILL too early for some people!)
and occassionally family members and even my current counselor at the LGBT center (I'm a female-bodied genderqueer person) treat me like I'm being "ungrateful" no matter how respectful I try to be about their concerns--they even become hostile.

The "rape happens outdoors at night" myth is just something people repeat without questioning it for generations only achieving allowing men to come and go whenever they want and "normal women" (not on drugs, aren't suffering from mental problems, aren't homeless) spend more time indoors! It lets law enforcement treat women like children "for their own safety"!

Are there any organization that would help me spread the word about this sexist myth disguised as rape prevention?
Comments: Read 8 orAdd Your Own.

Friday, January 14th, 2011

Subject:Bosses win right to give bra edict
Posted by:mushroom_maiden.
Time:11:45 am.
Got this in my Australian Sex Party newsletter today:

http://www.sexparty.org.au/index.php/news/os-news/949-bosses-win-right-to-give-bra-edict

"German bosses can order female employees to wear bras in the workplace after a landmark legal ruling.

An airport security firm took the 'bra wars' case to court in the western city of Cologne arguing it was essential "to preserve the orderly appearance of employer-provided uniforms."

The court agreed bosses had the right to require female to staff to either wear undershirts or white or skin-colored bras. Their demands do not violate workers' personal rights, the North Rhine-Westphalia state labour court ruled.

Officials also agreed the firm was entitled to demand staff keep their hair "clean, never worn looking unwashed or oily" and that men could only sport a well-groomed beard or be clean-shaven.

Fingernails were another source of contention, with the German court endorsing the view they should be kept shorter than half a centimeter (0.2 inches) to protect passengers from injury.

However, the company, which was not named, was knocked back in its efforts to dictate which colours employees could paint their nails."

How stupid is this?? Honestly. A company should be able to dictate fingernail colour, in my opinion, because if you've got neon green fingernails with a uniform that's usually dark/conservative colours... well, you know. It looks out of place, it doesn't match the uniform, it doesn't represent the company well. And keeping your hair/beard tidy & clean is also a reasonable kind of company uniform requirement.

But bras? WHY DOES IT MATTER. good lord.
Comments: Read 10 orAdd Your Own.

Saturday, October 30th, 2010

Subject:bit of a ramble
Posted by:sadie_cocopuff.
Time:7:07 pm.
 i was shopping yesterday and overheard the following conversation in the fitting room:

mom: i need to come in and see if it fits, since you've never done this before.
daughter: it feels HORRIBLE.
mom: well, sweetie, that's just how it goes. bras feel horrible.

i really just wanted to leap out of my fitting room and shout "then why the HELL are you making your daughter do something that makes her feel bad?" now i kind of do feel bad that i didn't say anything, but i didn't want to get into the awkwardness of eavesdropping/telling a mother how to raise her daughter (all of that has air quotes, but i'm pretty sure that's how it would have gone). but seriously, if it is mutually acknowledged among women that bras feel horrible, what are we doing still wearing them? (those of us that do, i mean.) 

a BIG part of the issue is that women's clothing is engineered with bras in mind. i own a lot of clothes that i like that look pretty terrible without a bra on under them -- not because i think the bra-free silhouette is ugly (i really like it, in fact), but because that's not how the clothes were designed. it wouldn't even be that difficult to reengineer a lot of styles to work with no bra under them, but there's not much demand for it except for strapless things (because even people who wear bras seem to recognize that strapless bras are uncomfortable, though for me if i had to choose i would wear strapless ones). also because fashion magazines occasionally post pictures of actresses going bra-free with commentary on how unfashionable and/or slutty they look. *grimace*

just wanted to share that story with someone, and i figured you all would be the most likely to be interested!
Comments: Read 6 orAdd Your Own.

Wednesday, October 27th, 2010

Subject:hi
Posted by:kittydreads.
Time:6:14 pm.
Hi, my name is Nathe, I'm from Moscow, Russia ))))
I hate bras and my husband hates girls wearing bras)
This is me:



By the way, I have a daughter 4 months old, but I'm not breastfeeding cause I'm HIV+
Comments: Read 4 orAdd Your Own.

Sunday, September 26th, 2010

Subject:Not Fond Of Wearing A Bra
Posted by:casual_mom.
Time:2:09 pm.
Mood: calm.
I too find that wearing a bra can be annoying and uncomfortable. I understand that sometimes it is essential to wear one (at least for me) like being in the work place or another such event. I grew up from a strict conservative family so growing up I was pretty much forced to even if i did want to. I used to hate the pain it gave me in my shoulders and how it would dig into my skin almost to the point of cutting me.

The only thing was wearing a bra was natural to me after always wearing one growing up. Going to college, getting married..I still wore one and didn't think twice about it. It wasn't until a couple of years ago (actually when i was on vacation and my luggage got lost at the airport) that I went my first full day without wearing a bra. I don't have the largest breasts but I still felt exposed without one. I remember if i saw someone looking at me i assumed they were looking at the fact that i was bra-less, even if the were not.

After that week of going without a bra i started to enjoy it and started doing it more and more when i got home. Walking around the house and sometimes going to the supermarket in the mornings. It became apart of me, I loved being bra-less. No more pain and the new free feeling that it gave me. It was liberating.



(Me around the house)
Comments: Read 6 orAdd Your Own.

Saturday, September 4th, 2010

Posted by:lovemegara.
Time:8:52 pm.
Mood: aggravated.
The other day I was chatting with a middle-aged, male friend of mine.  During our conversation, I mentioned how I don't have the desire to raise children.  He then went into this long rant about how women that don't give birth are at higher risk of cancer.  Has anyone else heard of this?

I wonder if (knowing the positive correlation between breast cancer and bras) he is also against bras for health reasons.  Knowing him, probably not.  Double standards, much?
Comments: Read 15 orAdd Your Own.

Thursday, September 2nd, 2010

Subject:Training Bras.
Posted by:lovemegara.
Time:6:52 am.
Mood: awake.
I detest the concept of "training bras."  What the hell are we being trained for?

After being teased in middle school for not wearing a bra, I caved and bought a training bra.  Why should I be bullied for having natural-shaped breasts under my shirt?  

Edit: On a triumphant note, I am (at this moment) going braless.  I wear bras occasionally.  
Comments: Read 4 orAdd Your Own.

Tuesday, August 31st, 2010

Subject:I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way
Posted by:real_live_troll.
Time:5:38 am.
Mood: contemplative.
I regularly stop by and read a pansexual sex-positive blog called Sex Is Not The Enemy (NSFW - lots of nudity and sex acts). There's not always much to "read" because often the entries consist of photographs of people joyfully expressing their sexualities or what I think of as simply asserting their bodies as being good and acceptable things or places, but there are also written excerpts from various sex positive sources. I recently read one that I wanted to share here because I thought it was relevant:


The man who is horrified at a woman's "overly exposed" breasts will likely never have to worry about wearing one shirt—one shirt out of a lifetime of shirts—that happens to accidentally set off some random person's slut meter, because of the way his body just is. And because my breasts are smaller, less visible, less imposing than other women's breasts—because there's less boob there—I can feel free to wear the more revealing top without attracting claims of public obscenity. It seems that some women's bodies are just naturally sluttier than other women's bodies—and all women's bodies are naturally sluttier than men's bodies. - With Great Cleavage Comes Great Responsibility
Comments: Read 4 orAdd Your Own.

Monday, August 30th, 2010

Subject:Sitting with my Legs Apart Waiting for Library to Open Conflict
Posted by:mel_pa.
Time:10:40 am.
Mood: scared.
I don't know if this is an appropriate question for this list but...

This week I was sitting at a computer at the library and a librarian passed me a note about my sitting in front of the library (I was waiting for it to open to get on a computer--first come, first serve) with my legs apart you know, a casual position. It went on to say "kids can see your private parts" dispite they were well covered. I don't know, I went to the librarian and said it was none of her business. I went online to talk about it and I was told my reaction was inappropriate.
The criticizm continues to climb.

Growing up I was taught it was "unlady-like" to sit that way and some years ago I was riding a bus and a guy, complete stranger yelled "SIT LIKE A LADY!".

I spoke with the librarian and she said a page said she saw me through a window and she saw some kids looking up my shorts and they were laughing. The kids part of the note to me was just incidental but the online responses made it the main issue. Most of the replies insist SOMETHING must have been showing or noone would have complained--only one reply disagreed with them.

Since then I sit with my legs closed out of fear.

I'm still confused, is this a gender stereotype issue or a protecting a child issue?
Should I try to talk to the page to straighten it out?
Comments: Read 12 orAdd Your Own.

Friday, June 11th, 2010

Posted by:dyrna_maluna.
Time:9:41 pm.
community.livejournal.com/8ms/ - little boobs! we don't have to!
Comments: Read 2 orAdd Your Own.

Subject:Transman in a Bind: My Mom is Trying to Get me to Wear a Bra! Help!
Posted by:mel_pa.
Time:10:50 am.
Mood: frustrated.
I don't know if this is an appropriate post for this list but here goes:

I'm a transman and three days ago my mom gave me some sports bras that look like they might be too warm and some panties (I don't want these either, I need men's underwear)
. She said I'm almost fifty so if I don't wear a bra I'm going to end up with sagging boobs. As if I really care about that!

I wear a light sports bra as a binder with only a certain loose shirt I wear in the summer to hide my breasts so I can pass as male(I go braless with the other shirts). The bras my mom got me as I mentioned before might be too warm for wearing every day--plus one of them is not a compression bra (a compression sports bra is appropriate for binding).

I googled sagging breasts and a site said breasts will sag whether you wear a bra or not. Are there any breast health risks for not wearing a bra over 50?


I'm closeted to my mom about my gender identity and expression/presentation! What can I do?

Odd post for a predominantly women's issue, huh?
Comments: Read 8 orAdd Your Own.

Wednesday, May 12th, 2010

Subject:Dimrs and larger cups?
Posted by:may1em.
Time:11:05 am.
Yo there!
I have worn a regular bra exactly once since October, and usually wear bralettes, camisoles, or the tank tops with a built-in bra. Now that it's getting warmer out, I'd like to be able to break out the tank tops, not have to layer, and not have to pick exclusively dark colors so my areolas don't show through.

I was interested in dimrs, but unwilling to commit to thirty bucks for an experiment, so I bought some stick on silicone nipple covers from Target that were on sale.

Well, I don't really have large breasts, but they certainly aren't small. If I wear a real bra, I'm either a 36D or a 34DD depending on style. I also have dinner-plate sized areolas, and I need the larger cup size because they're broad, not because they're super full.

I'm running into two problems with the stick-ons; 1 - they don't completely cover the areola, and 2 - the way they rest makes it look like I have two saucer-like bumps on either breast (this is not as much an issue on the smaller one).

Do Dimrs or other such things come in larger sizes? I think I'd have a lot more luck with an extra half inch diameter or a slightly flatter shape. I might end up looking into nipple covers meant for nursing women, but this is kind of ridiculous!
Comments: Add Your Own.

Wednesday, April 7th, 2010

Subject:Well, that's an improvement
Posted by:araminya.
Time:1:41 am.
I noticed yesterday that I can skip the rope without any tight clothing holding my breasts still - and it doesn't hurt at all. Not one bit. In fact it doesn't really even feel all that uncomfortable, which is a major improvement from when I was wearing bras; back then I couldn't even do the lightest jogging without my arms crossed tightly over my chest. Now there's no pain at all! Gosh, I do love my brafreedom. :D I'm also slowly getting more to the mindset of not giving a toss if somebody sees that I in fact have nipples, which is good because summer is on its way and I'm not keen on layering when it's a sauna out there.

Also, lemme share a tale from my childhood. I remember when I was downtown with my mother, who used to wear pretty raggy bras, a (probably drunken) man in the street shouted, "and the mum's nipples are showing!" which was obviously very disgusting. Well, I don't remember how long it was after that when my mum started to buy new, shiny bras, but I do think that that man's shouting contributed a lot to it; suddenly there were just loads of new ones in the laundry. :/
Comments: Read 2 orAdd Your Own.

Monday, April 5th, 2010

Subject:New here
Posted by:likeamadman37.
Time:8:25 pm.
Mood: excited.
Hi all, I just wanted to post and say hi. I came across this community a week or so ago, and I was very intrigued. Did some research online, and thought the idea of wearing no bra was interesting. So I've been trying it out around the house, very comfy. Today was my first day of wearing no bra at all. Went to work, wore normal work clothes with a cami, and I swear you couldn't tell I wasn't wearing a bra except that my boobs were not quite as high, haha. (I'm a 34C, and I normally wear a push-up bra.) Went to class tonight in a printed t-shirt, and I don't think you could tell terribly much. But I have to say, it was SO comfortable! I am so psyched about this. I don't see myself going completely brafree, but maybe part of the time. It was so nice not having that stupid band digging into my ribs. Yay!

Hope this kind of post is ok, hehe. But I am so excited I had to share!
Comments: Read 9 orAdd Your Own.

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